I have been reading a lot of cases that have to do with church property, especially when the church is affiliated with a larger national church. It looks like the most common of these is Episcopal Churches. A lot of Episcopal Churches wanted to disaffiliate with the national church when the national church ordained an openly gay bishop, the local churches wanted to join the Anglican Church of Uganda. Many of the dioceses of the Episcopal Church then sued to get the church property and funds back, where the diocese and the national church won. I wanted to get peoples opinion on this especially as a similarity to JWs and the claim that Watchtower is taking away congregation property.
Richard Oliver
JoinedPosts by Richard Oliver
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Church Property Ownership
by Richard Oliver ini have been reading a lot of cases that have to do with church property, especially when the church is affiliated with a larger national church.
it looks like the most common of these is episcopal churches.
a lot of episcopal churches wanted to disaffiliate with the national church when the national church ordained an openly gay bishop, the local churches wanted to join the anglican church of uganda.
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Australia - Brisbane Times: Authorities ignored Gold Coast photographer's child sex crimes
by AndersonsInfo inhttp://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/authorities-ignored-gold-coast-photographers-child-sex-crimes-20170413-gvkdx9.html.
april 13 2017 .
authorities ignored gold coast photographer's child sex crimes .
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Richard Oliver
It does show that you cannot just take the 1006 number that has been published by the ARC as being the number that was never reported to a secular authority that deals with this. It is true that it the number of perpetrators within the congregations since the records started in the 1960s, but it doesn't mean that they weren't reported to authorities. It was reported, even though it wasn't the organization that reported it, it was reported. That is where the ARC and the Branch has some contention in wording. Even in the second hearing Angus Stewart wanted proof that the Organization was the one who reported these events, but as the Branch reps pointed out parents or elders or others may have reported the matter and that didn't require the Branch to do the actual reporting but that it was reported to authorities.
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The West Australian: Jehovah Witness charged with historic child sex offences
by AndersonsInfo inhttps://thewest.com.au/news/wa/jehovah-witness-charged-with-historic-child-sex-offences-ng-b88453246z.
jehovah witness charged with historic child sex offences.
friday, 21 april 2017 3:11am.
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Richard Oliver
As reported in a previous post the man was not charged even though he confessed to child services for the province. The elders disfellowshiped him and that was his only punishment. The police did not charge him with a crime.
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Australia - Brisbane Times: Authorities ignored Gold Coast photographer's child sex crimes
by AndersonsInfo inhttp://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/authorities-ignored-gold-coast-photographers-child-sex-crimes-20170413-gvkdx9.html.
april 13 2017 .
authorities ignored gold coast photographer's child sex crimes .
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Richard Oliver
Infact the congregations disfellowshipping was the only sanctions that he suffered from those actions.
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Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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Richard Oliver
Also as a reminder most constitutions only bar the state from encroaching into a person's constitutionally protected rights, there is very little that stops a private individual or institution from doing that unless otherwise prescribed by law. That is why the KKK and other hate groups still operate in free countries like the USA. You can spout out hate speech all you want you can't induce a person to assault or kill someone but you can preach hate. Even in France one of the major candidates for President is accused as being a hate monger.
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Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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Richard Oliver
The other problem that you would have in order to make shunning illegal is that each baptized member prior to them being baptized is given a copy of the church's bylaws and is encouraged to read them. In fact prior to baptism the questions to determine if someone can qualify for baptism is taken out of that book. That book on page 140 states:
IF THE DECISION IS TO DISFELLOWSHIP
25 In some cases, the wrongdoer will have become hardened in his course of sinful conduct and will thus fail to respond to efforts to help him. Sufficient “works that befit repentance” may not be in evidence at the time of the judicial hearing. (Acts 26:20) What then? In such cases, it is necessary to expel the unrepentant wrongdoer from the congregation, thus denying him fellowship with Jehovah’s clean people. The bad influence of the wrongdoer is removed from the congregation, thereby safeguarding its moral and spiritual cleanness and protecting its good name.
Each person who is baptized agrees to live by those bylaws.
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Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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Richard Oliver
I know that people will say that this is a strawman argument but it is something to think about. Look at a few months ago a man in Australia was put on trial for child abuse and was found not guilty. That man was disfellowshipped from the congregation prior to the trial. So if there was no disfellowshipping then that man would still be in good standing in the congregation. So you have to be careful how you want to deal with a situation and the unintended consequences. -
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Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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Richard Oliver
And in about a year you will be able to see how a government handles shunning. It does appear that the ARC is going to add that into their report to the Australian government, so you will be able to see the political will that a democratic government has on this subject.
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Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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Richard Oliver
If you think that a first world Democratic country will make it illegal than you should certainly try and then see if it is not struck down in the courts so you may see the fruits of your labor in 5 years or so.
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Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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Richard Oliver
Stephan apparently you feel like you have a case if you are in the US try and Sue under article 42 of the US code. I can pretty much guarantee you would lose even if there was a law against shunning under eccleastical abstentian principle